Within 17 seconds of meeting Erik Jensen, brewmaster of Green Flash Brewing Co., he grabbed a sleek new GFB golden ale can off a pallet we walked by, put it over his crotch and said “these are for protection in battle.”
A fine icebreaker to be sure, but also, incidentally, a metaphor for the beer industry in 2017. With 5,300+ breweries on the shelves (some of which are being sold to AB InBev and MillerCoors), competition is crazy — so much so that even a big-time brewer known for its IPAs in signature bottles needs to evolve with changing tastes and be ready to offer new stuff, like a golden ale in cans.
Jensen is a craft beer veteran. He’s brewed professionally for about 23 years after graduating from brewing school and advancing from keg washer to brewer within a year of his first gig. He worked for a while at Karl Strauss, bounced around a few smaller brewpubs until landing at Green Flash in 2012. When Chuck Silva left in 2015, Jensen was promoted to brewmaster — just in time to undertake the gigantic task of building out and opening the new Green Flash production brewery in Virginia Beach (which is mostly done now).
Luckily he had the time to walk me around the facility, point out his favorite equipment (revealed later), point out what he’d like to upgrade (the keg filler) and discuss all sorts of stuff — the challenges and opportunities involved in expansion, the possibility of another expansion, how to meet today’s sales demand and his thoughts on the anti-competitive strategy of AB InBev and the forces of Beer Voltron.
Strap on your 12-ouncers and read on.
1. How long has the Virginia Beach location been up and running?
Been brewing since November 2016. We weren’t full bore at that point, just trying stuff out — had to get the kegging line and bottling line up and running. We were running it in December, but we weren’t really running it full bore until like mid-January.
2. Anything you are doing different there with this new build?
Every brewer knows that if you make a recipe in one spot and then go to a different brewhouse it’s going to be a little bit different. Could be water, but it could be the geometry of the tanks, the geometry of the fermenters, any number of things. There are hundreds of variables, but we wanted to make the things that were most controllable like equipment be exactly the same to make it easier to duplicate what we are doing here. So, we did everything almost exactly the same.
The big difference would be in Virginia, from the get go, we decided to go with bulk glass. It was a new project and we got to start from scratch so why not do it the best way? So we have our own box shop there, depalletizer, and it’s all going to be pretty much exactly the same equipment.
Then we were like, well, now that we are doing it the best way there lets do it the best way here. We have less space here in this building, which will be a challenge [about 10,000 sq ft less than the new Virginia Beach location]. Here the challenge is going to be receiving all of those bottles, boxes, carriers, inventorying them and trying to fit it into this shoe box here.
3. How hard was it to brew beers at the new Virginia beach brewery so that they matched the originals?
We were anticipating we’d have some real struggles, but we really didn’t. It tasted pretty much like what we wanted it to taste like. A lot of that was the water. It’s a lot softer there than the water we get in California. We don’t do a lot of treatment of the water here. We filter for chlorine, but we don’t reverse osmosis it or add minerals back — just take what we’re given. We use Colorado river water and some local water. Our water is not super consistent here. We took water analysis once a month for a period of a year and figured out what our water is here, and then we got a water analysis for the water in Virginia and used a calculation tool we have to build the water back to what we have here.
At first we thought we went too hard because some thought it tasted too “minerally.” But I went out there and thought they tasted the same. The biggest difference between the beers here and there is we tend to get a little more lingering bitterness here and the beers there tend to be a little softer — just a little bit.
4. Is there going to be any difference in the beers that are brewed there? Maybe East Coast-only recipes?
Eventually yes, but right now we only brew beers that we’ve brewed in San Diego. Back there, right now, we are focusing on our core brands — West Coast, Soul Style, Windows Up, Duet, Jibe — none of the small batches. Mostly stuff that is being sold in bottles and draft.
We have a pilot system here that mimics our process on the big system, at 1/10 the scale, which is super cool, and we have a program where employees can submit a recipe, convince the brewer it’s a good idea, and then it goes through a review, and a mini competition and whoever wins get to brew their beer. So we’ll do something like that out there with a 5-bbl system and do the same thing — create beers that will be for sale just in the tasting room.
On top of that we don’t have a canning line out there. Our can line here is pretty modest and doesn’t have a huge capacity, so we’re looking for a canning line for Virginia. Not sure when it will happen, but we think it would be worthwhile.
5. What area is that brewery serving?
Eastern seaboard and then could come as far as Texas. Just depends on inventories.
6. How do you manage that?
Luckily I don’t. We have a whole department of people who plan our production, so they know what sales needs and what distributors need. We have a certain amount of inventory in the tank we just always have. So we basically always have some beer going and then our production planning team just comes up with the right balance.
7. How far into the future do you need to be prepared?
It’s not as far as you’d think. It takes our ales, typically, from the time we brew it to package it, 18 or 19 days. So, it could be as little as 18 days ahead of time. We would like to see our distributors give us a little more insight of what they will order in a month or month and a half, but you know they are at the mercy of the market as well. They have their grocery stores and liquor stores and bars that aren’t sure what they will order next month. So, there’s an intrinsic demand, uncertainty of what you will be brewing in a month.
8. How does Alpine fit into this? Are those beers being brewed out there too?
Yes. They are actually quite popular out there. So far we’ve noticed the brands that are most popular in California — all of our IPAs, hops, more hops, are still popular out there, but not as popular in the tasting room. We are seeing people loving Cosmic Ristretto [the Green Flash Baltic porter], Mandarin Nectar and Sea to Sea Lager out there.
9. Huh. I assumed IPAs were king everywhere, and that’s what Green Flash is known for, right?
At least that’s what we’re seeing right now. We opened that tasting room in October, so we haven’t gotten into tourist season yet. That’s a tourism county and a military town. The military and local people are coming, but we’ve not seen yet the touristy crowd. So we’ll see how the mix of sales in the tasting room goes.
But when you think about it, I’d say the East Coast is as mature an IPA market as the West Coast, so the locals are buying as you’d expect on the shelf, but I’m not sure the hardcore IPA fan is necessarily always making it to the brewery out there. I mean, we see the same thing here, when the hardcore IPA crowd brings their friends who are looking for something a little less hoppy. Maybe three years ago we would have said “sorry!” but we’ve diversified since then.
10. I know you don’t even want to think about this because you literally just finished opening up Virginia, but is there any interest in more geographical expansion?
If it becomes necessary we would look to expand in the Midwest and go about it in the same way we approached Virginia.
[Editor makes shameless plug for doing so in Ohio. Specifically in Canton. ]
I don’t think we’ve settled on a location. Ohio is in the picture, I think Texas is in the picture. Maybe Chicago or St. Louis. You never really know until you start looking. But the main advantage for us in moving into a market is geography. It’s nice if 20 percent of our production goes to distribution in our state to save on shipping costs, but it also might be because of a beer scene or because of water access or regulatory conditions. Who knows.
I truthfully don’t get involved in that and am very happy about that.
Next: What he’s excited about in brewing, staying relevant and his thoughts on AB InBev’s “craft brands.”
11. Anything you are particularly excited about in brewing right now? Maybe a new hop or technique? I see you are using the new Cryo Hops.
Yea, we did an experiment using Cryo Hops in West Coast IPA. They are billed as more efficient, and I think we’ve seen it. The whirlpool here is designed to help us separate the solids from the wort before we pass it on. … Getting that trub and hops to settle out as much as possible means more beer. Our whirlpool is big for a 50-bbl system because if we brew imperial ipa or West Coast — it’s a lot of hops — which makes a huge trub pile. With Cryo hops you don’t have the leaf and stem, just good hoppy business, in theory that means less of the wort is bound up with hops and trub and more hits the fermenter. We’ve seen that to a small extent so far, but it also had a different flavor profile. And we’re not necessarily interested in changing the flavor of our beer to be more efficient. It was an experiment and it was delicious, but it wasn’t a West Coast IPA.
Other ingredients that we’re excited about … we try a lot of hops out. Two new hops we really like are Idaho 7 and Comet. Comet is an older variety that’s been kind of rediscovered. Idaho 7, from Idaho and parts of Oregon, has a nice fruitiness and a pungent dank combination.
12. Where have you used it so far?
Just in some experimental batches. When you are a big brewery like this you … have to meter your releases. With Comet, we did a test batch, release in California, the Comet hopper — a pale ale brewed with wheat and comet hops. Nice, not super bitter but pretty hoppy. Hop bursted basically.
13. Have you noticed any buying trends that have maybe changed what you are doing?
Yes, to an extent. IPA is still king but last year we saw people drinking a lot of sour beers — goses, Berliner Weisse … we’re not really equipped to brew those beers. We’ve done some pilot batches but nothing production scale. GFB is a market response. We see that blonde ale is killing it so we’re bringing this out to satisfy that market.
As far as the next cool thing? I am hoping you are going to tell me that. I’m an old guy. I don’t get out to the bars. I have kids. I’m not out there trying to find the new beers.
Although I did just have a tropical hefeweizen from Groundswell Brewing that was super hoppy, and it was freaking delicious. That idea had been on our mind, and I was like ‘I don’t think anyone is doing that.’ So we already had the recipe. We just hadn’t done it yet. So, we just brewed our own hoppy hef, and it’s freaking awesome.
14. Any hops you are against?
[Ponders for 10 seconds] Nah, I pretty much like all hops. There’s been a backlash against Amarillo because they were so good for so long, but the quality is maybe not as good in recent years. And the grower who controls the genetics was not writing contracts for a while and then would offer a contract for ridiculous sums of money, and you just get bitter — I was using this back when it was $7 a pound, what’s changed? Plus, they were better then. So, if there’s any bitterness, it’s there, but we still use them. We do whatever we can to find alternates.
15. With so much competition out there, are you seeing any shifts in your sales? Such as your core beers not selling like they used to in favor of new releases?
There’s sort of diminishing returns in just putting out new beer after new beer. Yes, it can be successful because people always like new shiny things, but beers like West Coast IPA and Duet, they have a stable sales base. But for us to put out a bunch of new beers like that is hard on our distributors because if we just keep saying ‘hey, we have a great idea,’ they don’t always appreciate it as much as you’d think because what if it doesn’t sell? Crap, I have 300 cases sitting in my warehouse, and now I have to eat it.
The seasonal thing has waned a little bit in the last couple years. We tend to do less and less special release in bottles and more and more on draft. And I think you’ll see more of that — more special release draft offerings because that gets us into the bar and people drink it at the bar and maybe like it and, it inspires them to buy our beer.
16. We ran a feature last week about how breweries stay relevant over so many years. Do you have any advice on that topic?
It’s definitely a concern for us, I think the biggest thing is to keep using the pilot system and keep brewing beers – even if it’s not big releases … We all know what we like, which is the most important thing. If not every person in the brewery is a total dork homebrewer weirdo, then it’s 95 percent. So we all love beer and are super passionate about it. None of us got into this industry to get rich. We just do it because it’s freaking cool, and we’re passionate about it, so we want to brew things we’re passionate about and good quality. That’s the best way to stay relevant, I think. Be real about it and brew things you like.
17. What’s your favorite random piece of equipment in the brewhouse that has changed your life.
The hop funnel — or better yet — the hop elevator. Let’s go look at it. … It’s really not that exciting.
The hop funnel holds a 44-pound bag of hops, sized perfectly for that. You can open it up, throw the bag in there and fits perfectly. But how the hell do you get those boxes of hops up to the top of the tank?
Our beers are hop forward. If we dry hop, it’s about a half a pound to 2 pounds of hops per barrel. So, with 250-bbl fermentation, we could have 500 pounds of hops to put in there. Eleven to 12 boxes. Plus the hop funnel.
Before, you would have to climb up there on a ladder with a bucket of hops and a funnel and you could die. I used to have to do that. Like if I saw someone doing that here, I would freak out because it’s not safe. What are you, fucking crazy? But a lot of other brewers still get on that ladder and risk their safety.
18. Do you have any thoughts on Big Beer buying up craft brewers? Does that concern you?
Yes, I think it should be a concern of everybody. I think it’s anti-competitive, quite honestly. The big guys aren’t able to compete with us brewing their sad old brands so they started buying up successful craft brands, and what that’s done is given their distributors more share of mind for those brands.
I was down to see the Padres last season, and I walked the whole stadium and finally saw Green Flash in the outfield. I walked up to get a beer at this “craft booth,” and it was Elysian, 10 barrel, Goose Island and one other AB brand, and I thought ‘oh, this is what craft is now.’ I know that we lose sales because of it.
If you think about it, a lot of news says craft is only up like 1 or 2 percent, or people say their sales are down, I think it’s directly attributable to [Big Beer acquisitions]. It’s just a loss of focus from true craft brands and a focus on the accumulated holdings of AB and MillerCoors.
So yes, I guess I have an opinion. Haha.
19. Any other big worries?
Hmm. Well it’s hard to worry too hard. I guess just running a brewery. Getting people to work for you. This facility is six years old, so things start to break, which is a constant challenge. Like, I’ve just noticed this pipe slowly leaking. Why is that leaking?
20. Do you like being a brewmaster?
I like the jokes that that come with being a brewmaster. Someone asks “should I call you brewmaster?” and I say “nah, you can just call me master.”
